Hi! I'm Daryl & I'm concerned about an ASP-based CMS

The decisions currently being made to implement a seemingly low-level, ASP-based CMS to organize a large central website, bring over 200 individual sites under the same umbrella and integrate an online learning system...frankly frightens me.  Shouldn't we look at something PHP based or .NET etc...? Can old-school ASP still hang? Should I be concerned? 

Hi,

Who is "we" in this instance? I'm guessing you aren't referring to asp.net - "Pure ASP" is dated, but it's also robust and scalable. There are many large sites built solely on ASP, and many site admins with no desire to migrate to PHP etc. Maybe if you could provide a little more information on the project we could offer something a little more substantive? 

I don't see many CMS systems on Windows platforms, but I know they are out there. My impression is that they are not well-supported and have a limited userbase. Being tied to the Windows OS is also a minus in my mind.Having said that it's no big deal in my mind to install PHP on the server and use that as a solution base. The nice thing is that if they outgrow Windows at some point, the move to Linux/UNIX should be mostly painless for the application.

I doubt what you are looking at is open source and so should have some purchase cost connected with it, but a greater concern for me is the management and ongoing support for something in ASP. I would like to learn more about an client consdiering this, but in general I would recommend something in PHP that runs on Linux/UNIX. This is from the support, overall cost, and stability standpoints.

But if the client has established Windows development and support, the ability to turn that ship from the path of the iceberg may be limited...

I work on the front-end of the existing site and have limited back-end knowledge. The decision-makers include the head of IT and the head of my department who in turn would look to the webmaster and myself for input. If the decision is based on current server limitations, I can understand it to some degree.

From my standpoint, the main goals should be to consolidate, streamline and automate, (considering a lean staff), and I thought we shared that goal.  I'm afraid there may be other agendas though. This old technology appears to have been implemented by one of the decision-makers in his previous organization.  Our organization is, no kidding, 25 times larger. I hate to see this pushed through for the wrong reasons and end up with a predictably limited product.

Is it bad etiquette to post company names?

Christian_SEO:

I don't see many CMS systems on Windows platforms, but I know they are out there.

Hi Chris - I think MS actually has by far the largest market share of the CMS market, especially the enterprise market - the acronym "CMS" has largely been replaced in the Windows world by Sharepoint - the Microsoft CMS (Content Management Server) is discontinued and these functions are now part of Sharepoint Server (even products like SAP are losing enterprise and ERP market share nowadays because CMS is really ALL about integration behind the DMZ as much as it is in the cloud - and the huge advantage MS holds is integration all the way down to the desktop).

Bigprender I can understand your concerns over front-end and middleware platform choices, however noting your comments about scalability, what's likely to be a lot more important than ASP or PHP etc. is the backend architecture - what DB software/hardware is proposed to hold all this content? The front-end is relatively easy to manipulate, getting the backend right is a lot tougher!

PS - If you are working for a private company it's probably best not to name them here...)

Any mature CMS should be able to work with the major databases (SQL Server, Oracle, Postgre, MySql), so that shouldn't be a problem.

If you're setting up a new system, there's no reason to use ASP. It's old technology. ASP.NET will give you better performance and less of a headache.

Out of curiousity, what ASP-based CMS are you considering?

The open source ASP.NET CMS landscape is dominated by DotNetNuke. I'm really not a fan of DotNetNuke's interface, and I've been trying to find a good alternative. Umbraco, Graffiti, N2, and AxCMS have made my short list, but I haven't really looked too close, yet. DotNetNuke's latest version is supposed to have some good changes, so I might give them a 2nd chance.

ASP, versus ASP.NET raises a lot of red flags in my mind. If the proposal was written in 1994, I might jump on the bandwagon, but times change.

Forward-thinking logic tells me that a more current (not necesarilly cutting edge) platform will prove to be a more prudent choice. Maintenance will likely be easier. Finding talent to support or reprogram it will be less of a chore as well.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt, and hope the proposal involved ASP.NET, and not the earlier ASP.

With that being said, the database engine is another decision that needs to be made. Just about any modern language will allow the utilization of multiple database platforms. This affords a level of independence that caters to scalability, too.

I appreciate the feedback...but I do know the difference between ASP and ASP.net. The proposed system is ASP.

Anyone familiar with these guys? http://www.schoolwires.com

Well, now that we have that out of the way...

What is your objective here? Do you have an alternative solution to the problem? This will likely dictate your direction at this point.

I think there is a consensus on this thread that ASP is not likely to be a prudent choice. However, without an alternative suggestion, your protests are likely to fall on deaf ears.

This is a classic case where the real issue is not a computer problem, but rather a "people" problem. In this instance, diplomacy usually works best.

My suggestion is to do your homework with regard to a solution that addresses all of the issues illustrated in this thread, and present your findings in an objective manner. Make sure you include whatever "pros" you can find for classic ASP, too. Let your findings tell the tale. Make this a "technology" debate, and not a "people" debate. If you make it personal you will lose.

If that approach does not work, then the odds are good that nothing is going to change the decision-maker's mind anyway. Once the decision is made, regardless of the outcome, you can sleep at night knowing that you made an effort.

A lot of my posts on Facebook are largely ignored (by everyone but my wife) ...I'm pleasantly surprised to see useful feedback on this forum though.

Jokes aside, I feel as though my voice will count for something if I, along with the webmaster, form a united front on this. What I am looking for here is some simple language to support my broad and possibly vague concerns. I also want someone to tell me if my concerns are unnecessary, if that's truly the case. Our boss (one of the decision-makers) will not understand much technospeak, so I have to craft my delivery appropriately.

Our efforts may be futile, because I have already experienced the effects of decisions made without the input of the main users, but like tclaremont said, I'll sleep better knowing that I tried.

Thank you all for any help you can provide.

Another tidbit of info:

A SharePoint CMS had already been implemented over the last 2.5 years, but it's been very poorly supported internally and externally. Apparently, the powers that be are giving up on it and looking to this other ASP based system.

If I am listening the to threads correctly, without credible backend support, any CMS would be  doomed...? Also, there seems to be differing views on the Windows platform for such things...

At the risk of sounding over simplistic, I think it is safe to say that ANY effort along these lines is going to be doomed without support from the staff.

If Sharepoint did not get embraced and was summarilly placed in the discard pile, then what on earth makes management think that a home grown CMS built on ASP is going to fly?

Perhaps it is time for management to do an autopsy on the Sharepoint effort and come up with a list of theories on why it died. Armed with that information, it might do you well to debate the fact that an ASP solution is not likely to address the fatal blows that doomed Sharepoint.

Without staff commitment to the CMS, it doesn't matter if it is written in ASP or Crayola.

Don't forget to consider any services provided by the company. They might provide things like support, installation, customization, template design, or training. It can make a big help when you're a small, over-worked team.

For example, we recently moved our external website to a hosted solution. It's not the greatest platform, but it does what we need it to. Plus, it's a big relief not having to worry about the website. I still answer some questions, but it's mostly HTML/JavaScript stuff... as opposed to chasing bugs or whatever.

Honestly, I don't think you'll have any major problems with ASP, but--all else being equal--you'd do better with something more modern (especially when you think about having to maintain everything 3-5 years from now).

As for Windows/Linux and ASP.NET/PHP, I don't think you'll notice any huge differences. If your org is more comfortable with Microsoft products, Windows-based solutions are an easier sell.

I checked out the SchoolWires site and a live site that uses it, and it looks like a pretty straightforward CMS... comparable with the other major players.

I agree, if you already have SharePoint, then it makes sense that you would see what you need to make that work. I suspect you are going to have the same issues no matter what other CMS (Generic: Content Management System) you consider.

And while I have no numbers to back it up, I find it hard to believe that installations and users of PHP-based CMS applications don't vastly outnumber all of the ones in Windows. It would be interesting to see statistics if anyone finds some...