video camera help -- Prosumer or Camcorder?

There's a chance that I might have $2,000 or so left in my budget this year. I've been wanting to get a good video camera for a few years, so this might be the time. But what should I get?

As I see it, I could get a nice Pro-sumer camera (like a Canon GL2) or, with limited knowledge and experience, should I just get a simpler, cheaper camcorder for now (or maybe two if they're low-cost enough) and hope I can get a nicer one in a few years.

I will also need a tripod and would like to get a lavaliere mic out of this money, so I can't spend it all on camera(s).

Of course, while I have a decent PC, I also will need something for editing purposes.

We do have a Flip cam now and it's nice, but would like something with a mic input to have a little better audio for interviews, etc.

Thanks in advance for the help!

David

ps I'm enjoyed the #tsdigs so far!

pss I accidently posted this in the wrong spot the first time.  ;-) 

I replied to this once, but apparently it did not stick.

Audio quality is usually much more important than video quality; if you want to record live sound you need a camera that accepts audio inputs (or record the sound on an external recorder and sync that with the video). First rule: for good sound, with any microphone, you need to get the mic a close to the sound source as possible; the mic on the camera will not give good sound.

Professional or serious amateur cameras will have XLR inputs, but the cost of one of those cameras could eat up (or far exceed) your whole budget; consumer cameras will have stereo mini-jack, or some really small cameras will have no external connections.

Some inexpensive mini-plug mics give reasonably good sound, but your choices may be limited. Even if the mics are acceptable, mini jacks are inherently flimsy and suffer from wear and tear, so you have to minimize physical stress to delay your camera having problems with that connector.

One way to deal with the mini jack handicaps is with an external box that accepts XLR inputs; if it attaches to the camera's tripod mount and is stationary relative to the camera, it will eliminate pulling on the mini plug. Some of these boxes also provide phantom power to condenser mics and/or a preamp to boost the mic's signal going into the camera. Even low-end professional cameras have cheap preamps, and you can get better sound by giving the camera a stronger external signal.

Jesse,

Thanks! This is great information. I had no clue about the importance of sound.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if I need to focus more on YouTube-style videos rather than attempting to produce something for broadcast (TV, closed-circuit, etc.). Maybe it doesn't make any difference, but I am assuming you can get away more without worrying about broadcast.

One question on the sound issue. Suppose we went with a consumer camera (something like a Canon Vixia HF100), with a mini-jack connection and the idea we're producing video for online use. Would the video quality be good enough to use on broadcast television as b-roll? I ask because although we're using this primarily for online use, we might want to use some of the footage (without the audio) for PSAs/commercials, broadcasts, etc. 

With this line of thinking, is going with a consumer camera (with mini-jack for audio input) going to be okay -- mostly online use -- or would you recommend moving up to a prosumer model? 

We were looking at something like (but not necessarily) the Canon GL2 prosumer (non-HD, but more powerful camera) or Canon Vixia HF100 (HD consumer grade camcorder). Didn't realize it was going to be such a tough decision.  ;-)

David

I cannot answer all your questions; I am very much an amateur who has done some reading and has a little experience.

If you watch a video with poor video quality but good sound it generally seems acceptable, but you will really notice bad sound with good video. At least the dialogue should be easily intelligible, and background noises not distracting. This can usually be done with inexpensive equipment. (I have one very old Radio Shack mic that sounds nice, but I tried some new, cheap name-brand mics that were really bad, and I returned them after just a few seconds of testing. I gradually, reluctantly, gave in to the idea that I needed better equipment, and needed to spend more money. However, trying to economize, I bought a few things that turned out still to be not very satisfactory. So I now know some rather expensive stuff that is fine (I bought some good stuff on eBay, but you need time and patience to get great deals), but I don't know where to tell anyone to draw a line. Pristine sound may sometimes be required for broadcast, but pursuit of such sound may be unnecessary - you should ask some broadcasters what they expect as to both audio and video. Try to get some experience with someone producing stuff you like.

I cannot compare different cameras, but some of the Vixias do produce nice video; discussion groups are full of people using them commercially for events, like weddings. I don't know when they would be, or would not be, acceptable for broadcast. I have a friend who does lots of documentary work; he doesn't care for HD video (not quite yet widely adopted, and he doesn't like the lossy compression of the signal), but he swears by 3CCD cameras, which is probably the dividing line between consumer and pro or prosumer cameras. However if you use a consumer camera, those audio adapters I mentioned are more expensive than you might think, and they're a bit of an inconvenience; also the advantages of the consumer cameras' small size start to be lost. And once you go there, all those good microphones will tug at your purse strings.

If I had a $2000 budget, I'd be looking on eBay for a used GL2 kit that includes the XLR microphone adapter.  You should be able to find a good camera, case, a couple of batteries and maybe a good tripod for under $1500.  Then look for some microphones, cables and stands. AVForSale has a set of three decent ones for $100.  Item: 200336549530  That should get you started with good video and audio quality.  (The GL2 built in mic is pretty amazing...)

A wireless microphone would be nice, but the cheap ones are junk, and good ones aren't in the budget.  Even used I expect to pay over $300.

Rick  <Who is saving for his own GL2 right now...>

p.s.  Watch the auctions for at least a week or two before you jump to make sure you have a good idea what is available at what price.

Hey David,

Basho here from Flip Video.  My main suggestion is that you decide what exactly you want to do with video before spending money.  The last thing that you want is to have expensive equipment around that you don't use.  Video production takes time, effort and focus.  If you have someone on staff, or your own work time built in, to create good video then it's a good investment.  The learning curve is fairly steep on video and even steeper with editing.  Once you have maxed out the usefulness of your Flip Video camcorder and your free editing software you will know better what it is that you want next.  In the past I have used a digital voice recorder with a lavalier mic together with a Flip Video camcorder to solve audio from a distance.  You'll have to figure out audio sync, (make a loud clap before shooting the interview), but it's very inexpensive and quite easy to work in post.

All of this said, a prosumer camera like the GL2 will give you better image quality and XLR inputs are invaluable for capturing quality audio.  They do require good mics, and ideally someone to monitor sound as well. 

I hope this helps. 

Take care!

This is good advice. I was a bit anxious that my postings would seem to disparage a different approach to DV. Those tiny cameras have a lot of value; the best camera is the one you have with you.

Basho,

I used to use a hi8 video camcorder to make my home movies. The quality was great, but making the movies was very labor-intensive. I love the ease of using the FLIP and agree that the video quality is great for what I need to do.

I like your idea of using a separate digital voice recorder to capture the sound. Out of curiousity, what software do you use to put the two together? 

Any of your video editing that allows you to add audio will allow you to bring your synchronized sound over.  The technical term for this type of separate audio is called "wild sync" as there are no time code tracks being encoded from the camera to a track on the recorder.

With today's digital audio recorders and digital cameras, the timing between the tracks is very accurate with minimal slippage, so getting the clap aligned between the audio and video, you can run many minutes before any slippage is visible.

Dave